Sour & SaaS with Alex Barca, Director of Demand Gen at Postal.io

Garrett: Well, hello everybody and welcome to another episode of Sour& SaaS. I am very excited today to be joined by the one and only Alex Barca. Welcome to the show, Alex.

Alex Barca: Hi, thank you so much for having me.

Garrett: Director Of Demand Gen at Postal. I love it.

Alex Barca: Yes.

Garrett: What are you focusing on right now? What are you building?

Alex Barca: Growth. We are growing at a really rapid rate, both from an employee perspective and just a customer retention perspective. We're growing really fast. There's a ton of white space in the offline market, so we're just trying to get as many customers as we possibly can.

Garrett: Postal's a newer player. From what I can tell, do you feel like you have an advantage compared to like let's say a legacy PFL or let's say the market leader Sendoso, who their platforms and their tech were built for a pre- COVID world? Do you feel like you'll have an advantage due to the digital nature of when you were built and why you were built, and kind of that stuff?

Alex Barca: Yeah, absolutely. I think we were also able to figure out what people's concerns were with some of those legacy products, and really design a product that would fit their needs. Yeah, 100% feel like there's an advantage. We also just have some differentiation like you mentioned. We went with the more like DoorDash, Uber model, so we partner with third- party vendors like local businesses that can fulfill these gifts and direct- mail services to our customers. We're just sort of that middleman technology provider, rather than focusing on warehousing and logistics, and all that, we want to be a technology company first. Yeah, 100% we feel like there's a huge advantage there.

Garrett: I think that was brilliant what you just said because... And I want to hear from your perspective, because you have this supply and demand marketing. So what you're doing, if you look at their website, postal. io, they have this become- a- vendor part where it is like a chicken or the egg. Because postal. io is going to underperform in the market that it under services with its unique differentiator, which is local brands that are going to have that more emotional connection of a gift. I think gifting, the reason we want to do it as marketers is it's a psychological, emotional play, where we connect the art of gratitude and giving to create a bond with our audience. It's like a give to get type mentality, and you really only get the emotion if it feels like the gift was selected for you from a brand you resonate. Consumers are different now. So how are you thinking about expanding without diluting the thing that makes Postal so special? How do you enter Atlanta if you don't have enough vendors in Atlanta? How are you thinking about that?

Alex Barca: Yeah, absolutely. We actually just hired a marketer and her full- time focus is making sure that we're getting new vendors, making vendors happy. That is just as important to us as our customers, because of exactly what you just said, we only succeed if they succeed. That's a huge effort across doing business is getting new vendors, making sure the vendors have a variety of products. Because exactly what you've said, if a customer wants to send one of their prospects something, maybe they want to send them a cupcake from a local bakery in their town, not a generic piece of swag. We want to make sure that we have all those vendors so they can fulfill those needs.

Garrett: Yeah. No, I think that's really, really clever. Now, it is Sour& Saas.

Alex Barca: Oh, yes.

Garrett: Are you ready?

Alex Barca: I'm ready. Got my warheads.

Garrett: All right. I'm going to get my sour candy ready. I just want everybody to know I'm on the West Coast. So when you all see me doing this, if you're listening later, P. S. subscribe to our podcast, leave a five star review because we're awesome. It's 9: 05 in the morning so I do this for the people, I just want everyone to know that. Are you 9: 00 in the morning where are you at?

Alex Barca: No, it's noon here but I don't do well with sour candy. I don't know if water is cheating but I'm going to have to take a sip.

Garrett: Michelle thinks this is hilarious so that's good.

Alex Barca: Yeah. Great. Michelle's on my team. She's laughing at me.

Garrett: Yeah. Michelle's enjoying your pain. I love that. Now, what tactics are you doing for supply though? Because I'm just really curious about this, because I think everybody talks about demand generation but there are multiple types. But in your type of business is a marketplace to a certain extent, you have to match them. What are you doing to get more vendors? Because to me, it's also a revenue opportunity for them, I would imagine. How are you guys driving awareness? Are you doing it account- based? What's your process?

Alex Barca: Yeah, it's interesting. It's a revenue generator and it's access to a new revenue stream. We have vendors tell us like, " I've been trying to get into the corporate gifting market but I can't get to these people." It's a way for them to service these large corporations so they're excited to partner with us. The interesting thing is now is that we get so many inbound inquiries, we haven't been super focused on doing outbound marketing to the vendors yet. I think we've been blessed with a lot of inbound interests. But like I said, we just hired a marketer so that will be her full- time job going forward, figuring that out, when and if the inbound inquiries do start to slow down.

Garrett: No, makes total sense. This is so sour. Is it just for me or is that sour?

Alex Barca: Yeah, it's bad. It's bad but I'm pushing through.

Garrett: Yeah, it's bad. It shows it's painful and I love every moment of it.

Alex Barca: I prefer this to spicy though so I'm okay crosstalk.

Garrett: That is so true. inaudible I can't do the hot things, it's kind of already been played out. I had to obviously be super original and just take a similar concept and make it sour.

Alex Barca: Yes. No, I love it. I like it.

Garrett: Now, one thing I don't see you address in your marketing... I'm like Santa Claus over here, so I am a very large customer for the gift- giving platforms. We changed our business with gift- giving and I'll talk to you about that in a second. But Amazon, how are you thinking about what I think the biggest problem gift- giving faces, which is the markup on the actual item to use the platform. One of the hardest parts about using some of the biggest players in this space, is how expensive the markup is and all the costs. A lot of them you have to create a gift budget for, and then if you don't spend it, they keep it. A lot of the items might be$ 20 MSRP, but to send it through them might cost you 45, things like that. I don't see you all really addressing that in your marketing. So I'm really curious from your perspective, how are you thinking about that? Because I think the person who solves sending gifts the cheapest is actually going to be the one who wins. What's your inaudible on that?

Alex Barca: Maybe we should lean into that more because we don't keep your budget. Your money is your money, we don't mess with that at all. I know some of our competitors do and we really don't mark up a lot from our vendor sites. I don't want to misquote my marketplace team, but oftentimes it's the same price that you'll see on a vendor's website, so we really don't have that issue with our customers. Yeah, 100%, that's something we should be leaning into because you're right. A lot of our competitors are keeping your funds and you're feeling like, why would I buy a platform? This is just making this more expensive for me. Whereas we just want to make it more automated, easier for you and the same price.

Garrett: That's my feedback for you, Alex, is why go through everything? I really do spend a ton of money with top players in the marketplace. I think you all are really focusing on how you're better than everybody, but I like to say, people only pay more and switch for different. I don't know if you all are leaning in as much as you could on what makes you different. I think you do on the actual gift side, which I thought was really clever. You show the gifts you send through us are different, but I think the actual mechanism of how you monetize me is different. That's the part that I think your biggest customers, the ones with the highest AOVs, I find them will be interested in it. What do you think about that? Do you think like-

Alex Barca: Yeah, I like that a lot. I think sometimes people are afraid to show how the sausage is made. But to your point, I think that that's a differentiator for us. And we do have it in certain places and our SDRs lean into that a lot when they're doing prospecting. But you're right, I think it could totally be a larger effort on the marketing side.

Garrett: Because if people send enough gifts, what you'll start to find is the markup of sending the gifts is so much. I mean, I think my team is sending probably over a couple of$100, 000 in gifts a year, not a small amount. And the markup on that, we're finding it's almost better to just go direct to Amazon sometimes and have Amazon ship something to someone. How do you think crosstalk-

Alex Barca: Are you doing any automation? Because that means if you're doing it through Amazon, that's just very manual. That's one- off. Are you doing any types of automation? Like when a prospect reaches a certain threshold of engagement, you send them a gift or anything like that, or the Amazon sends that crosstalk.

Garrett: Not a ton for how good and how aggressive. We have someone who's full- time job is sending all of our customers and our employees gifts. Talk to me a little bit about how people can use automation and maybe integrate it, so it's a part of a cohesive strategy instead of it's... For us it's very strategic but it's not automated. If you hit a certain stage in our funnel, we send you a personalized gift. But it's not automated. It's still very like... Because you don't want to dilute the magic. You know what I mean? There's nothing worse than a bad gift. You know what I'm talking about? When you get a gift from somebody and you're like, it feels like what we did to everything else in marketing, it's automated, it's a human list, there's no soul. How can we automate our gift- giving and keep our soul inaudible?

Alex Barca: I think you have to strike a balance. What I love about gifting is that you can get hyper- personalized and you can get very automated. I think with your high value ABM accounts, strategic customers, you're doing that very personalized. You're going into our marketplace, finding them something from their hometown, sending it to them when they need it. But then the very top of your funnel, there's tons of opportunities for gifting. Right now after every demo request that we get, we send someone a small gift and we're like, " Here's your first taste of Postal." There's a way to send people things that are maybe higher or lower price point that still gets them engaged. Like our SDRs have a lot of touch points with their outreach where they're sending people gifts, if they reach a certain step in an outreach sequence. If someone reaches a certain lead score in HubSpot, we can send them a gift. I think it's just the top of the funnel, you're going to get less personalized, but you can still give a bit of a personal touch. Like we have an aspect of our product called Collections where you can send someone six different options. It's like, " Hey, I'm not exactly sure what you're going to like, but here's a landing page, you select it and it'll ship straight to your door."

Garrett: Well, let's just talk about that straight on.

Alex Barca: There's a way to strike a balance. Yeah.

Garrett: crosstalk being honest. Isn't the worst gift in the world when you have to actually choose it for yourself? If we just get real for a second, outside of why you need to do that and the dilemma of sending one. This is my problem with gift- giving now. Is like, I've got to send a link and then they choose their gifts? It almost feels wrong. You know what I mean? A gift. You know like when you get to Christmas and your aunt and uncle that you never really see send you the $50 Nordstrom's gift card and you're like, " Cool, that's how much you paid." You know exactly what I'm talking about. It's like-

Alex Barca: I do but I crosstalk-

Garrett: You don't see it that way?

Alex Barca: I think I'm a bit of a control freak. I tell my parents what I want for Christmas.

Garrett: My wife is the same way.

Alex Barca: I think maybe you and I-

Garrett: No. I'm not like this. Yeah. She's got her list and I can deviate, obviously. I could be a little creative but she's got her 12 items.

Alex Barca: Exactly. I think there's options for both of those types of people. Someone like you that wants a surprise, we'll surprise you and there's a way to surprise people. But if there's someone that you're like, " I know they're going to be particular" or even an executive that you're like, " I don't think they're going to want another piece of swag," you can give them a charity gift card as an option. So there are plays for both types of people.

Garrett: Now, I, with all that gift- giving, I've experimented a little bit. So I'm going to tell everybody what my top performing gift is, but I'd love to hear from you, what is you all's top performing gift. Okay?

Alex Barca: Sure.

Garrett: I've tried the Allbirds shoes. I've tried YETI Coolers. I've tried Uber Eats. I've tried pretty much all of them. In fact, I'm actually going to add Tim right here. Yo, Tim, you better get your camera on my man. Let's get you in this thing. Let's see if Tim could tell us, because Tim is the one sending the gifts. Tim, what gift-

Tim: Hello.

Garrett: Welcome to the show, Tim. First appearance on Sour& Saas.

Tim: It's crazy.

Garrett: We've got the Yeti Coolers. We've got the Allbirds. We've got the Uber Eats. We've got Amazon on the list. Has anyone dethroned the$ 100 Amazon Gift Card?

Tim: No. I mean, Amazon's always been the winner. We've tried Lululemon. We've tried Airbnb and having the messaging even speak to each of those. Like, " Take a break. Go on a trip with your family to Airbnb." We've tried Starbucks.

Garrett: "We're trying to create experiences." We're trying all the psychological triggers of what most-

Alex Barca: Well, when you say number one, what metric are you using?

Garrett: Oh yeah, let's do context. We use gifts in all of our advertising to generate an intro call. We actually pay people$ 100 for a 15- minute intro call.

Alex Barca: Yeah. So you're saying that you get the most amount of intro calls when you use an Amazon Gift Card versus crosstalk.

Garrett: Yeah, over anything else even if we think it's a better gift. Every time we come up, we have a sexy idea. Tim and I are like, " Oh, that's it. That's going to be the new thing." And then Amazon still wins. We can't beat Amazon. To your point, because then everybody gets to pick.

Alex Barca: Yeah. I think that's interesting and that's why we try to make these collections, so you can still give people choice without giving them a gift card. I think really top of funnel, I get that. But when we get further on the funnel, we really encourage people not to do gift cards, because with physical gifts you're getting two touch points. You're getting when they accept the gift online, and then you're getting another touchpoint with them when they open it up at their house.

Garrett: I haven't thought about-

Alex Barca: Yeah. We try to encourage that later on in the funnel. For your instance, I understand why the gift card is so successful, but that's why I think a collection gives you the similar sense of choice.

Garrett: Yeah. No, it's actually quite clever. We could test that at some point too, is what would happen if we gave people multiple options and the concept of options, how would that perform? Now, within that, one of the things we do and this is where we get more customized, is when we get someone as a customer, we do an intake form and we figure out what they like. So we kind of learn a little bit more about them and then we can do really customized gift- giving. Do you all do something similar? Have you found that customized gift- giving, that where they tell you that they love the New York Jets and then it's hard to send them anything positive but no, but then you can send them gifts and that are relevant to them. Maybe it's a jersey, or a plaque or some type of memorabilia. Do you all do something similar like that for customer marketing and gift- giving, and employee marketing and gift- giving?

Alex Barca: We actually do it a lot on the SDR side. Our SDRs are great at that like researching someone, figuring out what they like. Maybe they've been posting about something recently and they'll send them a book on that exact topic like leadership, or sales, or whatever it may be. Right now they're doing a big March Madness play where they found out where people go to college, they're sending them a collection with merch from their college. I think you can on the prospecting side crosstalk.

Garrett: What's the offer? Can I send the merch to the CMO of a company who went to Villanova, and I send him like, " Congrats on whatever, here's your stuff"? What's the action you all are looking for from that?

Alex Barca: Open to taking a meeting to learn more about Postal. We've already gotten several people being like, " This is a great email. Happy to chat." So I think people just appreciate that level of personalization and the swag that we'll send them that is related to them. And on the customer side-

Garrett: Do you feel like-

Alex Barca: Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

Garrett: Do you feel like that's a fallacy though, because all you're doing is really good product marketing since that is what your product is? Do you think if someone listening right now is a software company who wanted to do that same thing, do you think they would have a similar level of success? Or do you feel like your success is predicated upon the fact that you're a gift- giving company, and they're experiencing what their customers would experience and so they can imagine themselves?

Alex Barca: It definitely helps. Not going to lie, absolutely helps, but we've heard from customers that have run similar prospecting plays. People are impressed by the level of personalization and they think you're a good salesperson, and they'll listen to you sell whatever type of product you have. People buy from people they trust, and if they feel like you did the research and you found them a gift that relates to them, we've heard from customers that it works for them as well.

Garrett: See, I have a similar philosophy that drives our approach, but it's a little different. I believe when you market to marketers, the most important thing is jealousy. I believe marketers are like car guys. The car guys, I'm a want to be car guy. I like cars. I try to be into it. But yeah, real car guys, they can see each other from like 10 miles away. They talk about weird stuff, they know all these things and they just nerd out, and it's like real recognize real. I feel like marketing is the same way. I feel like real marketers, when they see someone do really good in marketing, they're automatically like, " I'm interested" if that makes sense. It's like a really nice paint job or something you did really custom on your car, you're like, " I'm going to go walk up to that person and I'm going to talk to them and ask them about it." I feel like marketers are the same. Do you feel jealousy is a driver of this for you if you think about it that way? They want that experience for their customers, they're jealous and it's inspiring if that makes sense?

Alex Barca: Absolutely. And sales as well because we market to sales leaders. Because even though marketing is often the cost center or the buyer of our software, the sales team is very influential in getting the deal across the line because they want to send gifts to their prospecting clients. Yeah, if a sales leader gets a really great email from our SDR team or one of our AEs, they're like, " Wow, I want my team performing at this level." But being able to send gifts like this, they're jealous, 100%.

Garrett: Okay. I'll absolutely look into that. I've got a couple of follow- up questions. We had some really good points I want to unpack a little bit, but are you ready for your second round?

Alex Barca: Yes.

Garrett: It's around two hours.

Alex Barca: All right. I'm going to go for lemon this time.

Garrett: I dropped it. Pucker up.

Alex Barca: All right.

Garrett: Tim get ready, baby. You're coming back to the show in a second. Oh, my gosh. It's sour. All right. I want to bring Tim in because I want to talk about this concept of the value of the gift to get the action you want, because we've texted a lot. We love our customers and we love our prospects. We're not trying to over gift, if you get what I'm saying. But if you under gift, you don't get any results either. Tim, can you maybe break down for us today what you found in our research and development, around the monetary value of a gift? And then how bad gifts actually cost more than good gifts for us?

Tim: Yeah. I love this first one. We started off with$ 100, pretty easy number. We were going and then obviously Garrett especially was like, " It's working well. Can we lower the cost a little bit? Is there a way to get lower costs per meeting?" So we tried$ 50. Very early on we just saw actually our cost per meeting double just because of the conversion rates there. Then we went down the rabbit hole. We tried 105 and that worked better than a 100. Then we tried 110 and it worked worse than 105, which I thought was very interesting because it's more, but it just doesn't have that wow factor. We've also tried$ 500 versus 250, the conversion rates were very high in 500, it just wasn't sustainable. 250 surprisingly didn't work as well as I thought it would be compared to 150. If I could, I probably would've tried like 149 or something like that, but I think the increments were$ 5 each.

Garrett: I wouldn't say, "If you could." You know you can, right?

Tim: Right. Yeah. God, damn right now.

Garrett: Alex, what do you take on that? And thank you very much, Tim. What's your take on that, Alex? Do you find yourself similar? What are your breakeven points on these?

Alex Barca: I really think we try to ratio it to the size of the customer and how much revenue they're bringing us. Whether if they're a customer or a potential customer, we want to spend less to attain smaller customers, more to attain larger customers, and that's really worked for us. I think it's interesting that you guys have this standard play that you've been playing, but I would wonder if you change that number based on size of the company because-

Garrett: crosstalk.

Alex Barca: ... at the endof the day... Yeah. Okay, you do that.

Garrett: I'll break that down for you and then we'll see if this is what you guys do. We have five tiers. We have tier zero through tier five, and then each of those have different average contract values, different gross margins, different LG tax ratios. And then we tier our gift- giving and our campaigns. Also we tier our sales process. We tier who our intro call takers are. We tier who our AEs are. We tier who from the executive team and operations gets involved, all based off of these and we only do our advertising to named accounts. We have every SaaS company in the US in our database, then all of them are fully enriched and tiered with Semrush, Ahrefs, and SpyF data, so we know exactly how much they're spending, we build our own directive score and then we tier them based on that, and it's plus firmographics. Is that kind of what you all do?

Alex Barca: Yeah, 100%. We have three different sales teams for different sizes, and we break out our accounts that way. Yeah, sounds very similar, and we just match our gifting strategy the same way that you would to like your digital strategy, like how much you spend on smaller accounts versus how much you spend on larger accounts, should mirror your gifting strategy. Also by persona. You want to spend more on a executive than you do on a middle manager, but also it's not that simple. Because sometimes someone has a larger influence on the deal if they're going to be the one implementing the software, so maybe the marketing ops team gets a little bit more love. So you have to go play by play and make those decisions as you go.

Garrett: That's really, really clever. That is really, really clever. What's the best performing gift? You didn't tell me that yet. What's the best gift?

Alex Barca: I'd say it's from a specific vendor, they're called Noms cookies. They have a wooden box that you can actually engrave with a logo, and it takes a day or two to get to the client. You can really quickly send a good gift from a local vendor that makes cookies, they're great, and you can also engrave a logo. It's a little bit of personalization and it's fast so it really crosstalk-

Garrett: Whose logo? Their logo or yours? Because that's actually an interesting question.

Alex Barca: A lot of our clients will do whoever they're sending it to's logo.

Garrett: Yeah. Because for you, you want them to imagine this is what you would be sending to your customer, so you can almost literally recreate that experience for them to live out in their own life. Right?

Alex Barca: Exactly. Actually we also have a people ops HR use case. And I was talking to a client the other day that on everyone's first day, they send them one of those Noms cookie boxes with their own logo. It's like, " Welcome to X company." Yeah, it's multifunctional for sure.

Garrett: What's the future of swag? Because I saw you guys have that. We're doing collections now, like we have our summer collection or our winter collection. We try to make it more no crappy swag kind of thing. We might as well pay two more dollars a unit or three more dollars a unit to make it something people wear. What's your take on the future of swag, especially in this remote world? It's not a lot of USB sticks anymore. You know what I mean? What's that next thing?

Alex Barca: Yeah. Interestingly enough, I have a ton of T- shirts that I'll never wear. Swag is interesting. I think you do have to spend extra dollars and make it something that people will use. I think some of our best swag packs have been a mix of branded items and non- branded items, so that you're not just getting a bunch of Postal crap. You're actually getting like a cool Postal glass and chai from one of our vendors and a notebook. You're getting a couple of different things and some are branded and some are not, so that you're able to use them all to their fullest potential. Because I think sometimes if you just throw your brand on stuff, people are like, " I'm not going to wear that in public or whatever." I like mixing it up. But I'm also on the brand like no bad swag. Swag should look cool. It should not be something lame that's in the bottom of your dresser drawer, so on that page as well.

Garrett: No, 1000%. Actually, you see Bridget was like, " A brand swag, not branded swag."

Alex Barca: There it is, good. Bridget is our head of content and brand, and I just very badly summarized how she would talk about our branded swag. Thank you for that.

Garrett: I love that. Go off Bridget. I love it. Now, I want to give you a scenario, I want to wrap up our show and I want to make you kind of the queen of your domain. Okay?

Alex Barca: Mm- hmm(affirmative).

Garrett: I'm going to pretend, I'm going to give you a scenario. I want you to tell me how you would do this. You have a$250, 000 budget. We're a mid- market company but we've always struggled to go upmarket. For some reason, we just can't get those big accounts that are always getting hit up by everybody. We just can't seem to break in. We want to do something different. We believe that physical gift- giving will work, but we're scared of sending something to the office. Can we check on their website? They're still fully remote. We've got$ 250,000. We've got this tier zero. Our dream accounts, we've got 500 of them. How can we use gift- giving in your mind to strategically go after that upmarket, the place we know our board wants us to go with the big margins, the big account, the sexy logos? How do we use Postal to go get them? What's your game plan?

Alex Barca: Yeah. I mean, I think it's a traditional ABM play. You got to surround those accounts with all your typical digital channels, ads, every kind of communication crosstalk-

Garrett: Running some programmatic.

Alex Barca: Yeah, totally.

Garrett: Just play stuff to them. We may be hitting them up on LinkedIn Sales Nav. We've got some outbound going them. Got you.

Alex Barca: I think if any names that you can get, like if you're advertising, ebooks, stuff like that, any names that you can get into your database or use your SDR team to go after people and start emailing them. As part of Postal, you don't have to worry about people's office addresses. You can actually just email people, we call it a magic link. We say, " Here's a gift for you, click on it and then you can fill in your address information." You can send it to an Airbnb that you're staying at next week. It can go literally anywhere.

Garrett: crosstalk as well. There's a lot of people going to have this magic link and you get the address.

Alex Barca: Yeah, 100%. I mentioned that March Madness thing, we've done a ton of really cool... There's a whole, every other day. You can figure out a way to reach out to someone in a really personalized way, match that personalization with a gift. And I think if you're doing that across those 500 accounts to the key personas, and you're offering a gift at the right price point, which in this case would be pretty high because these are really high value items.

Garrett: What is pretty high for you? I'm talking like... So the way I see it is like title- wise. Let's say CMO and VP are going to need a maybe a different type of gift, because they're making let's say 250K plus. So you can't send them a $ 20 gift, they're going to wipe their butt with it. You got this tier, so we're trying to get these accounts. We got them, we got the director. I found anyone with over 500 employees, you can't market to managers because they have no buying control. We're let's say directors, and then VPs, and then C- level, so we've got these three tiers. What price are you spending on each?

Alex Barca: Yeah, I think I just got an Ember mug the other day and that was huge. That's$ 150. It's pers, it has a logo on it. It's really cool. Super functional. I think that's a perfect price point, that 150 mark for like a director, maybe VP level. When you're getting up to CMO level, I think everyone's interesting to me because they're often not the decision maker. They're just signing off. They maybe are the ultimate decision maker, but like a VP or someone crosstalk-

Garrett: ...play. The VP and the director are the ones you got to convince.

Alex Barca: Totally. And then the CMO has to just like believe that it's going to work, and it's inexpensive or fits within budget. I think you still want to get them something, but I think that's where a charity gift card comes in. They often don't need more things. So I think that's why you give them the options, but yeah. I think we also have some pretty high scale electronics in our marketplace, speakers and AirPods, and stuff that. Like you said, we do partner with those small vendors, but we also give you the choice to spend a lot more money if you want to on those higher people.

Garrett: Let's say we got a Ember mug to a director, we got AirPods to a VP, and we got a $ 500 donation to a charity of their choice for the CMO.

Alex Barca: Exactly.

Garrett: Something like that?

Alex Barca: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I think that would impress some people.

Garrett: Whoever's listening, hopefully. I really do think this works though. I don't know how else you're going to get someone's attention these days, with what? Send them another email asking 15 minutes of their time? You know what I mean? What are we doing? I just think this is the future is being exceptionally targeted and then using generosity. Don't be a penny picture. If you're about to make 150K on this account, don't be scared to spend 500 bucks on the CMO.

Alex Barca: Totally. 100.

Garrett: I think is my biggest... I don't know. I see that all the time with our clients. I'm always trying to convince them to use gift cards on combo ads. They're like, " Well, we don't want to pay for that." I'm like, " But your customer acquisition cost is$ 3, 500. You're only spending$ 500. You have$ 3,000 more to spend and you're not happy with your pipeline."

Alex Barca: Yeah. But I also think it's important to pair it with something personal. If the CMO just posted about a cause that they work with or what they volunteer for, pair it with that to like, " Hey, I saw on LinkedIn you do X, Y, Z. I thought a charity gift card would be perfect for you." I think the blasting out of gifts can get a little bit, I don't know, impersonal. I think as personal as you can get with it, I think is important as well.

Garrett: I love it. I love it. This has been amazing Alex. If anyone here wants to send more gifts, follow your story. What's the best way for them to do that?

Alex Barca: Postal is on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn. Yeah, postal. io is where we are on all the social channels. Yeah, we love to chat. Feel free to DM me and we can talk gifting.

Garrett: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Alex. For everybody tuned in, don't forget to join Society if you want to chat with me. Alex might even be on there. I'm not sure yet. She should be soon. And then feel free to subscribe to YouTube and review us on Podcast. Thank you so much everybody, and Alex, thanks for being on the show.

Alex Barca: Thank you.

Garrett: Bye everybody.